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Richard LeeThe mind reader would have better chances of winning, unless playing against AI, then I might put my money on the future seer.
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Michaela GallucciGiven how many moves I play without a crystal clear understanding of what would happen, I’d say the future seer would win. If they read my mind they wouldn’t find much
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Michaela GallucciMind Reader: “…..what the hell does ‘this move feels stylish’ mean?! And why are you also thinking of your crush rn?!”Me: “Look buddy I warned you to pick the future powers instead, this one’s on you.”4
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Sergei Lewis“Stop thinking up bad moves for me!” – “Nope, suck it up, use your own brain!”
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Дмитрий ТуровскийSergei Lewis Kin-dza-dza. soviet science fiction comedy movie. 1986.And the answer was“How can I use my own brain if i see those black and white buttons for the first time?”
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Charles AdamsonThe person who sees the future only sees the outcome but can not change it. However, the mind reader could use the information to counter the ideas. Therefore, the mind reader has a greater chance of winning.1
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Bojanic MilosAuthor+1Charles Adamson as seen in the Dune, Paul can see other possible futures too.
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Charles AdamsonI haven’t seen Dune so I did not know. But even so, seeing multiple futures would not, I would think, allow you to chose between them.-
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Matthew FryeIt depends what you believe about free will.1
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Ben AbrahamShusako-
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Roger ClarkeAre they playing against each other? Then the mind reader can see the future too.1
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Pierre-Emmanuel LevesqueThere is are problems in both cases.Reading Minds: What if your opponent makes a plan then makes a move based on that plan. You read his or her mind and make a move to foil that plan. Then your opponent thinks again and sees an even better plan that your move did not foil, so they make a new move for that plan – but this plan is full proof and cannot be stopped. The trust is, correctly reading the board is more power than correctluy reading your opponent’s mind.Seeing the future: If you see the future, but it cannot be changed, what’s the point? You see that you will lose the game. OK, you lose. You see that your opponent will make a certain move on move 10, OK, he makes it. If you now say that you can change the future, then you aren’t really seeing it in the first place I guess. Again, correctly reading the board and being able to see the future of each line is the most powerful since it helps you play stronger moves.3
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Patrick LeblancWithin the framework of Dune, Paul sees many possible futures depending on what he (or his entourage) do any particular point. However the exact points aren’t always clear to him. Moments of intense conflict with too many possible outcomes tend to be p…See more
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Pierre-Emmanuel LevesqueIt just seems a bit ridiculous and pointless to talk about <seeing the future> in games like go and chess. That’s exactly what what the game is about – and we already have a name for it – called reading in go, called calculating in chess. Or, does seei…See more-
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Patrice RochonWhite would win with 0,5 point.2
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Tedward GainesIf they’re playing each other, the mind reader can also see the future-
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Alex CooleyTedward Gaines But the seer can predict the mind reader’s moves XD.Seriously though, I agree with what you said. I feel like the mind reader would win.
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Elijah Edward KohrtTedward Gaines My opponents thoughts are heavily influenced by my moves so I wouldn’t even be able to predict their next move a lot of time tbh. xD
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Michael B. BerthelsenI think it depends on whether the mind-reader can hear EVERYTHING in the mind they’re reading, or only active, concious thoughts…-
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Ondra Krumlisnt it kinda same as if you play against yourself?-
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Patrick MüllerI think the answer is the one who is better at playing go.The futureseer could see possible outcomes, but the mind reader would know everything he knows, so that is no advantage.The trick to beating a mind reader, however, is playing by instinct without really thinking about the various moves your opponent (the mind reader) could make. Just play clean, precise shape moves, get ahead in board state without ever thinking about what the mind reader should do, until you’re far enough ahead in points that he can’t catch up even if he reads your every single reading of the board.-
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Freeman NgIf Paul’s prescience is not just knowledge of what must be, but works the same way it does for the Spacing Guild — i.e. allowing them to steer the optimal course through all coming obstacles — then Paul would win. Reading in his mind that he has plot…See more-
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Paul BloemenI would call this inconclusive. I would put my money on the side that can minimax the game.-
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Jesse CnockaertIt depends on whether or not we live in a deterministic universe.Maybe they can see the future is one where they lose, but constrained by cause and effect, they cannot change the outcome.-
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Michael KrisAre we assuming both players are equally Strong at go? Also the mind readers ability trumps the ability to see the future in a 1v1 game since anything the future teller can see will be seen by the mind reader at the same time-
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Петар МиодраговићIt’s a Seki then…no win – no lose…eternal stillness…so singularity wins bouth-
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Dejan StankovicHilarious-
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Cacie Prinspaul would win … The only real part of bene gesserit training that’s psychic is the transference of knowledge & experiences from one reverend mother to another … the rest is just very accurate reading of body languageit’s something david lynch d…
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Justin SpicerThe Reverend mother Gaius Helen Mohiam can not read minds-
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Sam HoltEva-Dee Beech no reading required with future vision. You can consider a move by simply looking at the games outcome; does it lead to victory or not? Which is why mind reading would lose. All you would read it “this move leads to victory” and gain no i…See more
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Eva-Dee BeechSam Holt I guess this largely depends on the type of future vision. I was thinking of a more limited one
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Chris WalljasperEva-Dee Reading correctly?
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Marc WillerthThe funny thing is that both of these “superpowers” are regularly employed in teaching games… Talking through plans and ideas up front (so the student knows what the teacher is thinking) , and letting the student go back to an earlier point in the ga…See more6
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سارة الجندىmind reading, seeing the future won’t tell you specifics depending on how the power is manifested-
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Scott BusbyMind reader could pick up the future from the future seeing opponent. So both would see the future.2
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Swamii NairtsepurIn the movie ‘the divine move 2’, the protagonist plays against a fortune teller, the fortune teller only accepts challengers if the loser amputates his hand. He has a collection of hands and even knowing that he would lose, he plays.1
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Sergio VacaThe one who could see the future, cause he only play whenever he saw himself as a winner2
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Свилен Стефанов ПавловThe truthsayer is terrified by Paul at that point… She will definitely loose the game. In the books it says why she is scared. All the female Bene Gesserit can pierce up to a point. There is a dark spot in their seeing like a vail they can not percei…See more1
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Kody LaingThe answer here is simple. The one who can read minds. Because if you can read minds, and your opponent sees the future, then you can also see the future2
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Chad GessnerThat’s what I was thinking. If you can read minds and you are playing against someone who can see the future you can also see the future, and read minds. At the same time :0
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Thomas GilchristPaul would win probably, but only because his powers outstripped hers. Play this scenario out vs his mother at her prime though and it gets more interesting. Paul’s mother, daughter…..and possibly sister (not sure on this one) were more formidable than the emperor’s truthsayer was.-
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Darrell TownsendReading the future, reading my mind would not help your sanity1
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Gunnar DickfeldLet them play in lightning/blitz time conditions or heavy byoyomi.None would have enough time to read the future or the opponent’s mind.1
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Elijah Edward KohrtWhichever one is better at go.-
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Peter MooymanYou’re all assuming there’s only one future – when seeing the future, you’re only seeing one possible/probable future… so the mind-reader would win.4
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Свилен Стефанов ПавловNot really. You see all diverging paths and all the inevitabilities, which converge them back.The sad bit is that Paul tries his best to stir the future in a way for avoiding the holly war (jihad) in his name. He becomes a prophet in the desert and foresees the extinction of humanity. His son (Leto Atreides II) takes the golden path. He merges with the worms, which produce the spice and lives for more than 3 500 years being a God Emperor. He is able to see the future too. During that period Arakis is no more a desert planet, the worms producing the spice are extinct, the genealogical Bene Gesserit “program” is taken over by Leto II…There is only one future you can live through. You are assuming what others are assuming. Imagine having the knowledge of all possible outcomes of a Go board. That will be a solution to the mathematical problem, which is the game of Go. Once solved you shall know who the winner always will be (depending on komi). Is it always a win for the Black, is it always a win for the White, and with the proper komi – is it always a draw. Once solved this you can not loose. In the situation of a proper komi and always a draw game, you can not win either. A mind reader is irrelevant in this case. It will all depend on the solution to the game and on the nigiri. Prescience beats mind reading on nigiri always. You can as well throw mind reading away, or taking it on a ride, foreseeing billions of possible futures. Mind reading should have to make a choice at some point, which will collapse the future. For mind reading the connection between the choice and the effects of it may not be as clear as for the seeing the future. Imagine living your life, and then imagine someone watching a movie based on the story someone else wrote about you living your life. The mind is an interpreter, and you are able to set it aside whenever you wish to. Knowing the future does not requireyou to think about it. It you are not thinking about it, what is there on your mind, which a mind reader would be able to read? Nothing, or something not connected to the game, you are “playing”… Knowing the future is more like a constant state of a déjà vu. It’s hard to explain.
Once you remember being in such a state there is nothing to be explained, really. You just know.
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Martin JurekDepends on how the future telling works, but I’d bet my spice on Paul. If I remember correctly Paul can see a variety of futures and more or less decide which one to follow (some futures being uncertain). I think it works similar to when an AI “sees” (…See more2
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Свилен Стефанов ПавловUncertainty comes from the existence of multiple variables (humans) and the unpredictability of some human beings. In a Go game those are not an issue. You have a mathematical solution to the game. A path from beginning to end, which should lead to 100% win with the current rules. If you know the solution to the game, all will depend on nigiri. Prescience beats mind reading on nigiri every time. You eleminate chance with it.
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Matthew HipkissFenring was not a mentat. That was Piter De Vries-
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Дмитрий ТуровскийI think the winner is the one who better understands the meaning of moves.-
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Eliphas Levi StraussThis isn’t a “logical puzzle”, but speculation about fictional characters with fictional powers.The answer is “whatever the author decides” because, again, they aren’t real.-
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Claudio GonzalezSomebody in Argentina beat you to this meme idea long, long ago-
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Kartik Aman SarafProbably that future thing. Learning where someone is going to play rather than what they’re doing now is more useful in go.1
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CHAP.MANGANELO.COMUltimate Rock-Paper-Scissors Vol.1 Chapter 9 – Manganelo-
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Clayton SmithUnlike rock paper scissors I posted above, go doesn’t have a deterministic and predictible win/loss result table with clear counter plays.unless the bene gresserit is just better at go, Paul would win – he could look into the future of each move he …See more1
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Lukas KrämerI have an answer for Pauls case, but it contains critical spoilers.-
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Sighris ZargonAdminGroup expertNo spoilers Lukas Krämer!!! I have not read the book in about 30 years, and I’ve forgotten a lot, plus the movie might be different than the book…. and I’ve not yet seen the newest movie version…. but I will soon…. BTW, I posted about the book back in the early days of the ‘net. My earliest posts have been lost/deleted, but here is an old one (over 15 years ago, 2005): https://sighris.livejournal.com/73437.htmlSIGHRIS.LIVEJOURNAL.COMA quote from Frank Herbert
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Nonarit BisonyabutProbably a 20 kyu game…-
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Alexandre FilipeOne who can read Minds could also read the future since the mind he read was reading the future. The answer will be who has better skill, because reading or not ultimately the skill would decide it since they both start from the same spot1
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Phil YeagerPaul. After ingesting the Spice Melange and converting it. He would win.-
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Babacar MisaengSighris Zargon , it will become a joke for your opponent when you play. Ha ha ha
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Lum WenkangNeither cause neither know how to counter it
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Evan HistedImma go with mind reader. Reading the mind of someone who sees the future allows the mind reader to see the same futures.
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Max GronaldThey try it in Twilight, no? Edward vs. Alice (but I think it’s Chess)
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Neal ChristensenSeeing the future is useless if it is immutable. You’ll know how you and your opponent will play, but you won’t be able to change the outcome.
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Bojanic MilosAuthor+1So let’s make the conclusion on this.As noted before, this is not the original puzzle. Previously it was made for chess. The solution for chess is much easier since the draw is quite often the result of a chess game – which is not possible in Go.Analysis and solution to chess puzzle can be seen on this video:YOUTUBE.COMWho Would Win in a Chess Match, Someone Who Can See the Future or Someone Who Can Read Minds? PuzzleWho Would Win in a Chess Match, Someone Who Can See the Future or Someone Who Can Read Minds? Puzzle
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Bojanic MilosAuthor+1The great problem in the puzzle given here is that we basically don’t know anything about it. Here are the most important aspects of this puzzle:– strength of Go players – we don’t know their strength, and whether one is stronger– mind-reading – how does it function at all? Can the mind-reader sense everything that the opponent is thinking or just his first move?– seeing the future – how does this function? If one can see what will happen in the future then it is the set path and not much use of it.If one can see what would be the outcome of one move, then it would be very useful to follow this path.Overall, the mind-reader could follow the path of one who could see the future, thus annulling his special ability and possibly a stronger level at go.But there is a problem – even if players are of the same strength, or can read each other minds to play at the same level – in go there must be a winner, a draw is not an option.So we can see that outcome of this game would be very difficult to predict.-
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Zhuo Jia DaiUr futue could be u losing so seeing it ain’t gonna help. Better be able to read minds-
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Paweł KoziołIn Dune universe seeing future is not an exact science (not all paths are seen) and Bene Gesserit mind reading is somewhat restricted when it comes to male souls, so result would be in doubt, and I’d expect a game on superhuman level.-
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028DecPosted:December 28, 2021 Tuesday at 3:50 am
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Fantezie amuzantă

Autorul postării de mai jos pretinde că aceasta este o problemă de logică.
Mie mi se pare că este doar o problemă ce duce la un paradox. Și pentru că e vorba de fantezii precum cititul minții sau a viitorului, nu este altceva decît o fantezie, pe care eu o văd ca fiind amuzantă.
În plus, apare și un goban care pare a fi prezent în Dune. Dar curios, Dune nu apare în listele cu filme ce conțin referințe la Go. Să fie o scăpare?
Dar iată și problema. Este trasă la temă cu Goul, și cu Dune de altfel, pentru că e valabilă pentru orice joc al minții. Deci cine ar cîștiga o partidă de Go dacă unul dintre jucători poate vedea viitorul iar celălat poate citi mințile?
Paradoxul mi se pare ca fiind o buclă a celor două capacități. Citind mintea celui ce vede viitorul, practic vezi și viitorul. Iar cel ce vede viitorul, vede acțiunea celuilat, deci practic vede rezultatul minții, deci e ca și cum o citește.
Și pentru că este amuzant, voi copia mai jos și cele 81 de comentarii.